Information about the New Kadampa Tradition and Kadampa Meditation Centers

We thought it would be important for you to know that the teaching or Buddhist Center you are contemplating visiting, or in which you are already involved, is controversial from the much broader Buddhist
perspective, and that you should know the facts and have information from all sides before you make up your mind.

Here are some main points:

  • If you commit to study with the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT) at any Centre you will only study the books of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, and only his books will be found in their book stores. The original texts they are based on are also available in many other Buddhist traditions, but unlike most other traditions, the NKT teachers will not encourage you to read them. The rationale the NKT uses for this is that mixing traditions will confuse you.
  • You will be taught to meditate on ‘absorbing the Guru’ (who is manifest in this life as Geshe Kelsang Gyatso) into the depths of your mind and to reinforce this meditation with the protection of Dorje Shugden in the practice of either Heart Jewel (daily) or Wishfulfilling Jewel (daily); also, Offering to the Spiritual Guide (2 times per month), and Kangso, (monthly). These practices are the ‘Essence of Kadampa Buddhism’ as taught by the New Kadampa Tradition. The practice of Dorje Shugden, a deity, is in part, but only in part, at the heart of the controversy.
  • You will notice that there are no pictures of the Dalai Lama at any teaching or in any New Kadampa Tradition center, as they are forbidden. The Dalai Lama has requested, in order to maintain peace and harmony in the communities of all Tibetan Buddhist traditions, that practitioners of Dorje Shugden should not attend his teachings or view him as their Spiritual Guide. He has not banned the practice of Dorje Shugden, and as such, it does not affect anyone in the NKT. The NKT has always emphasized its complete independence from Tibetan society even though the lineage of the teachings is promulgated as Tibetan.
  • The NKT claims that it does not engage in political activities, such as public protest, but it does state that they support the activities of the Western Shugden Society. However, members of the NKT, under the name of the Western Shugden Society (WSS) have organized and paid for frequent and persistent demonstrations all over the world against the Dalai Lama accusing him of not being a Buddhist, of lying and hypocrisy.
  • Under the auspices of the WSS, many of the prominent members of the NKT who have been protesting are Gen Kelsang Khyenrab, Deputy Spiritual Director of the NKT, Gen Kelsang Dekyong, National Spiritual Director of the United States, Kelsang Rabten, National Spiritual Director of NKT Australia, Kelsang Pema (the main public spokesperson) personal assistant to Geshe Kelsang Gyatso for more than 8 years, and the current resident teachers of the world-wide centers of the NKT.
  • In the last two years many high level teachers of the NKT have left under suspicion of sexual misconduct, including Gen Samden Gyatso, the previous long term Deputy spiritual director of the NKT.

So why is the WSS protesting against the Dalai Lama’s advice at a time when Tibetans are being imprisoned, tortured and murdered for trying to preserve their own culture which includes these precious Buddhist teachings?

Is the WSS creating difficulties for the Dalai Lama in the public arena in order to deflect public awareness of internal difficulties in the NKT under the pretense of protecting the practice of Dorje Shugden practitioners?

You can contact INFORM, a research group at the London School of Economics that studies new religious movements for information on the NKT.

For more information you are also welcome to email: timetobehonest@ftml.net

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16 Responses to Information about the New Kadampa Tradition and Kadampa Meditation Centers

  1. […] Information about the New Kadampa Tradition and Kadampa Meditation Centers […]

  2. Ron Cook says:

    Some Christian traditions only study the Bible? Also, virtually every Muslim tradition study only the Quran. Bahai’s study the teachings of Baha’ ullah. Studying with one teacher and their teachings is neither unusual within Buddhism nor outside Buddhism.

    Some Christian, Sikh, Jewish, Hindu, etc. traditions seek union with God by absorbing God into their heart. The most renown historical practitioners within all Buddhist schools have absorbed their spiritual guide. That is one of the principal causes of enlightenment.

    Many Buddhist traditions do not put up a picture of the Dalai Lama, especially those throughout southeast Asia, because he is not their leader.

    Defending ones faith from annihilation is not a political action. It is a religious action with a religious motivation.

    If you have proof of the NKT breaking it’s constitution, then provide that information to British authorities so that they can revoke it’s charitable status.

    High profile spiritual teachers under the Dalai Lama have disrobed due to sexual improprieties but continue to teach and continue to be supported by the Dalai Lama.

  3. Ron, I think you miss the points in many ways.

    The NKT is a split from the Gelug school and claims to be its pure upholder, while none book of the 18 volumes of Je Tsongkhapa’s work is present, only commentaries of Kelsang Gyatso who claims his books are commentaries on Tsongkhapa’s work but in fact are almost not. The NKT presentation offers just a fraction of Buddhism (Gelug school) and is very superficial.

    None of Kelsang Gyatso’s books are used as monasteries’ text books, and until today it is unclear if and what kind of Geshe degree he has.

    Using your logic on the Bible: that Kelsang Gyatso wrote a new bible is his right and fine but why writing a new bible, was the old one not sufficient, is he more wise than Je Tsongkhapa?

    To set up a structure or organisation in that Buddhist followers can only rely on one teacher alone and only his books is very unusual in Buddhism. In Buddhism you have the choice for your teacher in NKT not. In NKT all must take Kelsang Gyatso as their root guru and rely on his books. and advice. By doing this the follower will split more and more from the Buddhist community and Tibetan Buddhism and the great upholders of Tsongkhapa’s school. This is completely uncommon. Maybe you don’t know the world outside of NKT?

    NKT is derived from Tibetan Buddhism and in Tibetan Buddhism all schools venerate or cherish the Dalai Lama in a way. He is much more cherished as an authentic Buddhist master in the Gelug tradition – from which NKT is an offspring. HHDL is one of the highest spiritual authorities together with the Ganden Tripa for the Gelug school. It is unusual to actively discourage veneration of an authentic Buddhist master and promote only a single Gelug monk as the object of veneration or refuge at the cost of excluding all other masters including the highest representatives and experienced, learned and realised members of the Buddhist order. This is schism but not Buddhism.

    There is also a tradition of opposing Shugden worship as being spiritual harmful, especially by the 5th, 13th and 14th Dalai Lamas. Therefore according to your logic it is also true for the Dalai Lama that “Defending ones faith from annihilation is not a political action. It is a religious action with a religious motivation.” because he follows the tradition of those who oppose Shugden worship and pointing out it flaws and dangers.

    Regarding your point: “If you have proof of the NKT breaking it’s constitution, then provide that information to British authorities so that they can revoke it’s charitable status.”, agreed. Let’s look what is possible.

    Your claim: “High profile spiritual teachers under the Dalai Lama have disrobed due to sexual improprieties but continue to teach and continue to be supported by the Dalai Lama.” lacks evidence. According to the Vinaya you have the right to disrobe or to give back the robes. A right which Kelsang Gyatso refuses to his followers although the Buddha himself allowed it. When someone has decided to end his ordination and has not broken his vows than of course he can teach, there is nothing wrong with this. If he can teach if he has broken his root vows is a rather complex matter. However there is no censorship in Buddhism who can teach and who can not, it is the responsibility of the student what teacher he accepts and to check if the person is genuine. This is not the duty of HHDL to announce who is a proper teacher nor is it the duty of the Sangha. They can offer their point of view if they are asked but nothing more.

    The rules by NKT – like if you disrobe you have to leave the NKT centre (NKT centres are mixed with NKT ordained and lay people) and you can come back after one year but it is not allowed to teach Dharma – are selfmade and lack basis in the Buddhist teachings. Due to not knowing this you may feel it is inappropriate for a person who was once ordained and then ends his ordination properly to continue to teach, but this is incorrect. The error is your lack of knowledge about monasticism (Vinaya) and Buddhism.

    Also it is not correct to compare the sexual scandals within NKT with some seldom instances in other Buddhist schools. In NKT they were rather systematic and performed by the successors of Kelsang Gyatso with the knowledge of NKT leadership (Kelsang Gyatso), In the Tibetan monasteries where the monks and nuns have proper guidance, the Vinaya, experienced elder, knowledge about the rules, application of the rules and rituals such systematic abuse does not happen.

  4. Ron Cook says:

    NKT ‘survivor’ your original criticism is:

    1) “You will only study the books of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso”

    You quote Je Tsongkhapa as an authentic master. However I have no doubt that if you were alive at the time of Je Tsongkhapa you would be arguing that he was a heretic because he was creating a new tradition – the Gelugpa! You would level the same criticisms with the same mistaken views.

    Obviously you have not read the biographies of the great Buddhist masters. If you had you would know that it is your view that is incorrect. Read Milarepa’s biography for example. Since you are taught by the Dalai Lama to practice the so called ‘middle way approach,’ then read the biographies or works of this and the other ancient masters. Masters like Nagarjuna, Ashvagosha, Arayadeva, Asangha, Vasubandhu, Chandrakirti, Dignaga, Dharmakirti, Padmasambhava, Shantideva, Saraha, Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa, and many others. They had complete and single pointed Guru devotion. Yet by your standards these masters would be considered fundamentalists, extremists, and sectarian. Their practice of Guru devotion was in fact mainstream and widespread.

    These practitioners only studied and practiced what their Guru taught them. They became enlightened or liberated themselves from samsara. If you or anyone else follows the Dalai Lama’s example of mixing all the teachings together, you will never attain enlightenment and you will never become liberated.

    2) You ignore any comment on your second criticism. Absorbing the Guru is an authentic teaching and practice in Buddhism, as evidenced by reading the biographies and teachings of the masters above. You should also note that these ancient masters were practitioners of the Kagyu, Nyingma, and Sakya schools.

    3) All Tibetan traditions that venerate a politician are mistaken. Of course they are free to do so, but it does not mean it is a correct practice. The institution of Dalai Lamas has so successfully merged religion and politics that both Tibetans and their neophyte Western counterparts believe the fusion of these two positions is pure and authentic Buddhist practice.

    The 5th Dalai Lama created the Dorje Shugden controversy as a way of consolidating his power. He lied about who Dorje Shugden was and then later in life recanted, as evidenced by his compositions of praise for Dorje Shugden. Subsequent Dalai Lamas have used the issue for similar reasons, especially the current Dalai Lama. The 14th Dalai Lama is using this issue to divert attention away from his failure to regain any form of Tibetan independence and to consolidate his power over the 4 four schools.

    4) You have no evidence of the NKT breaking its constitution. If you had you would have long since alerted the authorities. You and others make such unsubstantiated claims only for one reason, to destroy the NKT’s reputation. This is evidenced by years of repeated claims of financial or constitutional impropriety without providing the slightest subsequent proof.

    5) It seems that you are unable to accept that anyone would cherish their faith to such an extent that they would hold a determination to protect it from destruction. Hopefully you will never find yourself in the same position.

    6) I have had the opportunity to read the Internal Rules of the NKT. It is clear that a person can teach if they break their vows, disrobe, or engage in immoral acts. They can teach whatever they want, however they cannot pass themselves off as someone representing the NKT. The reason such a person is not allowed to teach again within the NKT is simply common sense. Rumours, doubts, and lack of faith would swirl around such a person. The Dharma that such a person would teach could easily become of secondary importance. If such a person wants to teach they can start their own tradition or join one of the Dalai Lama’s.

    As for sexual scandals, the Dalai Lama continues to support Sogyal Rinpoche who is known to have had sex with many of his female students, he was sued for this activity and settled out of court. He is a disrobed monk and is still teaching. He has a long association with the Dalai Lama.

    The Dalai Lama said of Chogyam Trungpa, “Exceptional as one of the first Tibetan lamas to become fully assimilated into Western culture, he made a powerful contribution to revealing the Tibetan approach to inner peace in the West.” Yet Trungpa was a disrobed monk, known to be an alcoholic, and known to have had sex with his students. He continued to teach despite these revelations. The above quote was made after all of this had come to light. Trungpa also had a long association with the Dalai Lama. There are a number of other examples, simply Google the words ‘sexual abuse – Lama or Rinpoche’

    There have been rumors of systematic homosexual abuse by monks in some monasteries. Hopefully it is not true, however it should be investigated. One can understand the reluctance of any monk coming forward claiming that they were abused. There would be huge consequences in making such a claim, the least of which would be being faced with expulsion.

    Moreover, if you examine all the traditions the Dalai Lama professes to be the leader of, and how many ordained have disrobed within these various traditions due to breaking their vows, you will quickly realize you have no basis to cast any stones at others.

    If you think it is not correct to compare these scandals, this only reveals your hypocrisy and bias.

    You say it “is not the duty of HHDL to announce who is a proper teacher nor is it the duty of the Sangha.” Then it is equally not the duty of the Dalai Lama to ban Dorje Shugden, or to coerce the Sangha to forsake their practice of the deity.

    Finally, ordination is not a ‘try it and see if I like it’ endeavour. You either take and keep your vows or you do not. Buddha never advocated breaking one’s vows nor allowed ordination to be a hobby, which you seem to be claiming.

    Since we shall never convert each other to adopt the others’ point of view I shall cease posting on this site.

  5. For the sake of dispelling wrong conceptions, I approved your post and reply to it:

    NKT ‘survivor’ your original criticism is:
    1) “You will only study the books of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso”

    Je Tsongkhapa studied under all great masters of his time from all Buddhist traditions in Tibet, including Nyingma. He was not following a specific school or tradition but was keen to penetrate and realize the teachings. For this he relied of the greatest master of his time. He was a seeker of realization and insights and not a purist or fundamentalist.

    Je Tsongkhapa was respected and revered among all the other schools and their masters he didn’t create his own school. Besides his many spiritual activities he just taught the Dharma without attachment to a particular school. Later when he founded monastery Ganden his followers became known as the Gandenbas. There was no Gelug school nor did he created a new school or order. Later when Je Tsongkhapa’s view on emptiness received criticism from the Sakya school (Je Tsongkhapa received the Madhyamaka teachings from Rendawa, a Sakya lama) the Gandenbas defended him. To distcance themselves from the criticism the Gandenba’s called themselves now the Virtuous Ones or Gelugpas.

    Je Tsongkhapa was very persisting in the Vinaya and how to keep all the vows and he gave a good example on how to do this. He revived monasticism and Vajrayana teachings were restricted to monks and nuns who had a proper education (long term studies).

    What Geshe Kelsang did is very different from this. To avoid the fault of fault finding people can check out themselves what he did contrary to Je Tsongkhapa.

    The main difference and what makes NKT to a personality cult is, that Kelsang Gyatso separated himself from his own roots, isolated himself from the monastic community, the abbots and masters, and that he isolates also his followers from them, he made himself the sole spiritual authority to his followers. There is no respected master in Buddhism who did this. This is completely against the refuge.

    NKT members do know almost nothing about Je Tsongkhapa, the Gelug history and therefore they cannot recognize how different they are and why they face so much criticism. Theown ignorance labels then those who clarify the points as ignorant or having ‘mistaken views’, what a joke.

    I read some biographies of the masters, including one of the most authentic biographies about Je Tsongkhapa ‘Source of all Goodness’. What view is incorrect? What are you telling? You list a list of names which you may have taken from Kelsang Gyatso’s books (the names) but did you read any work of them, did your receive teachings about their works? I did, so I know what I am talking about. Do you like to cheat me? It is you who never read something by them, besides maybe Shantideva’s work Bodhicharyavatara or Kelsang Gyatso’s commentary on Chandrakirti. More than this is not taught in NKT from the master’s you list. Are you deliberately fooling me?

    ‘Guru devotion’ does not mean to follow a lama who is misleading his followers. It’s quite different from what NKT has taught you. I do not see any great being like Milarepa or Naropa following Kelsang Gyatso. Who is following him? What are the results his successors and closest disciples attained? What master reveres him? What wise person does he delight?

    Take the example of Naropa: He was one of the abbots of Nalanda who was able to discriminate between wrong Dharma teachings and correct Dharma teachings. He was realized and very learned. He had a vision of a Dakini who pointed out Naropa as his master. Before he relied on Naropa he checked him, and he was able to judge because he was not a naïve Western Dharma newbie. You think you and NKT members can compare with him or Milarepa? Mialrepa had strong imprints from his former lives and before he met Marpa he had already renunciation, fear of lower rebirth, strong compassion and a deep willingness to transform himself. Is this comparable with neurotic Westerners? If you think yes, you are wrong, it is like a fox is competing with a lion.

    Most Westerners have not any of the characteristics of a Mahayana student they are unable to discriminate wrong gurus from genuine gurus. Just due to a lack of knowledge and the knowledge they do not acquire in NKT either. It’s just a vicious circle of not-knowing. NKT will abuse this lack of knowledge to bind new members and will indoctrinate them with distorted and superficial views about Buddhism which mainly will turn them to ‘devoted’ followers.

    If you accuse the Dalai Lama of ‘mixing traditions’ you should not forget that Atisha and Je Tsongkhapa were also great ‘mixer’. Did you read their biographies? Their followers didn’t attain enlightenment? Very interesting…

    2) You ignore any comment on your second criticism. Absorbing the Guru is an authentic teaching and practice in Buddhism, as evidenced by reading the biographies and teachings of the masters above. You should also note that these ancient masters were practitioners of the Kagyu, Nyingma, and Sakya schools.

    Yes this is authentic but the problem is that what people absorb is mainly sectarianism and fear because this is so present in the teachings and approach of NKT. (I didn’t write this information above).

    3) All Tibetan traditions that venerate a politician are mistaken. Of course they are free to do so, but it does not mean it is a correct practice. The institution of Dalai Lamas has so successfully merged religion and politics that both Tibetans and their neophyte Western counterparts believe the fusion of these two positions is pure and authentic Buddhist practice.

    It is your discrimination that HHDL is a politician. Your discrimination can be mistaken. As there are many high masters from all schools who either have HHDL as their teacher or view him as a genuine lama your view is probably mistaken or are you more wise then them?

    Also the Buddha served in his lives as a Bodhisattva as a king for a people like HHDL does, was it wrong to venerate this Bodhisattva who became later the Buddha? Maybe you read some of the Jataka tales? The real Kadampas emphasized the Jataka mala very much, it was one of their main teachings. There are many ways for Bodhisattvas to serve the welfare of sentient beings. Maybe you think again about this point? The Buddha served as a religious and political kink people, when he was a Bodhisattva. If you can not accept the approach of HHDL maybe it is also hard to accept the way of a Bodhisattva who became the Buddha of our age?

    The conception of “mixing dharma with politics” is in your mind, you learned it from Kelsang Gyatso who uses this conception to discredit others, like Lama Yeshe or HH the Dalai Lama. This conception may be very one-sided and even wrong. It’s just a conception, like the conception if “purity”. Why clinging on it and fixing the mind, making it narrow minded? There are many perspectives how things can be viewed.

    “Purity” has different meanings. Every conception is impure because it is not a real understanding and but perceives the object what appears to it as the real object. “Purity” can also refer to being free from mental afflictions. Being free from the mind poisons. If someone has such a pure mind and is free of mind poisons then all his actions are pure. So of course also what we label as political actions. Isn’t even your teacher political very active against what he perceives as a politician?

    What you tell about the 5th Dalai Lama is just a fraction of the history and the praise you mention is simply not to be found in his works. Of course NKT and some Shugden followers have a very unique version of understanding history. I save my time by avoiding going into details. For more see:
    http://westernshugdensociety.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/academic-researches-regarding-shugden-controversy-nkt/

    One Gelug master and very learned scholar who was asked about this said: Shugden was from the very beginning abused to undermine the activities of the institution of the Dalai Lamas. So indeed is a political issue. Also Shugden lamas tried to replace Nechung state oracle by Shugden. So of course this are politics in the dress of religion. BTW also Gandhi was a religious person and a politician and he was keen about that both can work together.

    The Dalai Lama is not consolidating power over the 4 four schools but Kelsang Gyatso is consolidating power over his students. You may project too much the situation in NKT onto the outer NKT world 😉

    4) You have no evidence of the NKT breaking its constitution. If you had you would have long since alerted the authorities. You and others make such unsubstantiated claims only for one reason, to destroy the NKT’s reputation. This is evidenced by years of repeated claims of financial or constitutional impropriety without providing the slightest subsequent proof.

    Those people who made this information were discussing about this and have reasons to issue this. I don’t know all the details. But it is clear that NKT can not act politically (according to UK laws nor according to their own constitution) yet do they performing political protests and run a world wide political campaign. That the Shugden dispute is political is stated by you and Kelsang Gyatso. So there is a problem with your constitution, isn’t it.

    5) It seems that you are unable to accept that anyone would cherish their faith to such an extent that they would hold a determination to protect it from destruction. Hopefully you will never find yourself in the same position.

    How can the Dalai Lama destruct NKT? NKT is completely independent. Aren’t it the successors of Kelsang Gyatso and some of his followers and the sad developments in NKT who destruct NKT? So why not purify the own place?

    6) I have had the opportunity to read the Internal Rules of the NKT. It is clear that a person can teach if they break their vows, disrobe, or engage in immoral acts. They can teach whatever they want, however they cannot pass themselves off as someone representing the NKT. The reason such a person is not allowed to teach again within the NKT is simply common sense. Rumours, doubts, and lack of faith would swirl around such a person. The Dharma that such a person would teach could easily become of secondary importance. If such a person wants to teach they can start their own tradition or join one of the Dalai Lama’s.

    I do not understand what you wish to say here. The point is that Kelsang Gyatso wrongly denies his “monk” and “nuns” to give back the robe without having broken any vow. This is a right the Buddha has given. By this policy and other policies Kelsang Gyatso puts the NKT monks and nuns under a pressure that is completely uncommon in Buddhism. There is also no policy who can teach and who not outside of NKT. I think, NKT is a somewhat crazy control unit in everything. The true dictatorship is in NKT not outside 😉

    Sogyal Rinpoche is no monk. He is no member of the Buddhist order, so he can have sex. This is his business. There is no record that he broke his monastic vows. There are many high lamas in all schools who were once a monastic and disrobed properly and continued to teach. You are too much misled in your judgement by viewing everything from the tunnel of a narrow minded NKT perspective. Most high masters (also from other schools) when they feel they wish not continue a lifestyle as a monk or nun will think thoroughly about it and then – if these are very high lamas – approach His Holiness to discuss this. There are many records in the biographies of present male and female masters about this and this is according to the Vinaya, the Mahayana and the Vajrayana. The refusal of disrobing is not. So please get a better knowledge.

    As you said Chogyam Trungpa disrobed, this is his right and the Buddha allows this. If he made faults then he will experience the results of it. However he is not the successor of HHDL or the Karmapa nor did HHDL cover any misbehavior as it is happening in NKT. There is nobody outside NKT who will forbid any lama to teach, it is only in NKT were there is such a control unit. The reason is as I said: the student is responsible to have the qualities to discriminate wrong from genuine teachers and he has the responsibility on whom he relies. Therefore there is no fault on the side of HHDL when someone continues to teach. This is just a idea of you or NKT that this must be controlled. As I said you judge too much from the point of view of ‘NKT dictatorship’ and ‘cult control’. You seem to know less about the outer NKT world. (Sorry for being frank, I follow your own direct approach.)

    It is HHDL who is very keen and direct what should happen when sexual abuses happen, unlike NKT or Kelsang Gyatso he doesn’t cover up things. He stated:

    “5. Particular concern was expressed about unethical conduct among teachers. In recent years both Asian and Western teachers have been involved in scandals concerning sexual misconduct with their students, abuse of alcohol and drugs, misappropriations of funds, and misuse of power. This has resulted in widespread damage both to the Buddhist community and the individuals involved. Each student must be encouraged to take responsible measures to confront teachers with unethical aspects of their conduct. If the teacher shows no sign of reform, students should not hesitate to publicize any unethical behavior of which there is irrefutable evidence. This should be done irrespective of other beneficial aspects of his or her work and of one’s spiritual commitment to that teacher. It should also be made clear in any publicity that such conduct is not in conformity with Buddhist teachings. No matter what level of spiritual attainment a teacher has, or claims to have reached, no person can stand above the norms of ethical conduct. In order for the Buddhadharma not to be brought into disrepute and to avoid harm to students and teachers, it is necessary that all teachers at least live by the five lay precepts. In cases where ethical standards have been infringed, compassion and care should be shown towards both teacher and student.“

    see: http://info-buddhism.com/open_letter.html

    The Dalai Lama is very able to face and to deal with problems he does not hide it under the carpet.

    I read one account of a monk who was abused. However there are enough mechanisms in the Vinaya how to deal with that and there are elder monks one can ask for help. NKT should install the Vinaya invite high masters and solve their own problems. Also cases of being raped are dealt with so there is for anything a way and a solution.

    The ordained Sangha communities outside NKT rely on the Vinaya as laid down by the Buddha. The criticism here is coming from ex-member, NKT should take it to heart instead of practising fault finding towards others. There is enough to do inside of NKT.

    HH the Dalai Lama is not the leader of the Nyingmas, the Sakya’s or the Kagyuepas. You are plain wrong. However, regarding important issues almost every head of a school is consulting and requesting the advice of the Dalai Lama. You have no idea about what really is the case and how really Tibetans live and think. You’re just another victim of the misleading NKT propaganda.

    Ron learn more before you raise such non-sense claims. It is not HHDL who is criticizing NKT: NKT IS CRITICIZED BY ITS OWN VICTIMS, NKT’s former members. Those people wish to protect others from being abused spiritually, mentally, financially and sexually. Stop to accuse for every problem NKT has the Dalai Lama. The problems NKT has are self-made problems, they do not come from an outer source.

    You compare a frog with a lion, this cannot work, they are too different. Likewise NKT world and outer NKT world are very different. There is no hypocrisy or biased involved to deny that a frog and his abilities cannot be compared with the abilities of a lion. The world of NKT is like the well of a frog and the world of Tibetan Buddhism or Buddhism is like the ocean:

    Patrul Rinpoche (from Words of my Perfect Teacher)

    Teachers like the frog that lived in a well.

    Teachers of this kind lack any special qualities that might
    distinguish them from ordinary people. But other people put them up on
    a pedestal in blind faith, without examining them at all. Puffed up
    with pride by the profits and honours they receive, they are
    themselves quite unaware of the true qualities of great teachers. They
    are like the frog that lived in a well.

    One day an old frog that had always lived in a well was visited by
    another frog who lived on the shores of the great ocean.

    “Where are you from?” asked the frog that lived in the well.

    “I come from the great ocean,” the visitor replied.

    “How big is this ocean of yours?” asked the frog from the well.

    “It is enormous,” replied the other.

    “About a quarter the size of my well?” he asked.

    “Oh! Bigger than that!” exclaimed the frog from the ocean.

    “Half the size, then?”

    “No, bigger than that!”

    “So—the same size as the well?”

    “No, no! Much, much bigger!”

    “That’s impossible!” said the frog who lived in the well. “This I have
    to see for myself.”

    So the two frogs set off together, and the story goes that when the
    frog who lived in the well saw the ocean, he fainted, his head split
    apart, and he died.

    Your argument
    You say it “is not the duty of HHDL to announce who is a proper teacher nor is it the duty of the Sangha.” Then it is equally not the duty of the Dalai Lama to ban Dorje Shugden, or to coerce the Sangha to forsake their practice of the deity.

    Is incorrect because the majority of the ordained Sangha from the three main seats of the Gelug monasteries rely on HH the Dalai Lama as their teacher and advisor. The monasteries asked the Dalai Lama about his advice it is his duty to offer it. It is also his duty to protect his students and this he has done in the past when he said that those who practice Doghyal and wish to received initiations from him should not receive it because it will harm both sides. He gave advice on a particular practice and not a particular teacher.

    It is you who claim that others break their vows and are not able to keep it. You may be wrong here again, as long as you have no proper understanding about monasticism it may be better to be silent because you may denounce the Sangha of the Buddha. Who tells you that non-‘NKT monks’ see their ordination as “a ‘try it and see if I like it’ endeavour” “breaking one’s vows” “a hobby”? It is NKT who said the vows are too hard and made an own ordination which suits more a Western lay perspective.

    Yes, lets keep it with that:

    Since we shall never convert each other to adopt the others’ point of view I shall cease posting on this site.

    Bye.

    • Lhakee says:

      NKS – I found this site today and was reading and it came to my mind.

      “the frog that lived in a well.” :-)))

      and you mentioned that later !

      chears

      a Dalai Lama follower :))

      • Yes, I was a frog living in a well, and later I saw the ocean. Now I discuss with the frogs in the well but it is not easy to explain the ocean to frogs who only know the well… Also my English is very poor, however, I try…

  6. jeff says:

    at the end of the day, none of this matters, but i read it anyway

  7. james says:

    Suffering is caused by selfish cravings; and the eightfold path is the way to transmute them.

    I don’t know who is right or wrong in the exchange above, but I think that reading the whole thing reminded me how easily my mind can slip into the four pitfalls.

  8. Hisako Damon says:

    Hey could I use some of the content from this blog if I provide a link back to your site?

  9. Choir Robes says:

    Choir Robes…

    […]Information about the New Kadampa Tradition and Kadampa Meditation Centers « New Kadampa Tradition – Kadampa Buddhism[…]…

  10. Asking Person says:

    what happends if long time ago just for curiosity, I was assisting some NKT talks, and and they made me sign to be a NKT student but i was like 1 month and then I leave…
    is bad that I signed even if I leave quickly?
    or I have to go back and sign out with an special form?
    Anybody knows?
    I don’t want to be politically associated with NKT tradition, not politically , not spiritually, not anything.
    Is not personal, is just that i always was a Christian, I am Christian, and I will always be a Christian, that’s why I need to know about the situation I’m asking here.
    Please, I need an answer.

    • Don’t worry. Just keep a distance to NKT. It doesn’t matter what you’ve signed. You’ve decided to go, that’s your right, and there is no fault here.
      I don’t think that you need any special form, just going or leaving is fine.

      Very best!

      • Asking Person says:

        You made my day, you don’t know how I needed to read that words you said to me, forgive my bad english and thank you for give me the comfort I needed.
        For many time i didn’t sleep well and didn’t do my normal day routine things without feeling bad until i got the idea for asking help here on the internet.
        Is no doubt that there is something bigger than everything, is a fact that there is someone that take care of us manifesting himself through people like you, no matter your religion.
        Because I felt that I got this answer like a message of him telling me that when we get lost from the correct path, he knows we still have the strenght to get back to the track at time and there is no bigger love than that.
        THANK YOU AGAIN FOR EVERYTHING.
        BLESS YOU.

  11. Asking Person says:

    You made my day, you don’t know how I needed to read that words you said to me, forgive my bad english and thank you for give me the comfort I needed.
    For many time i didn’t sleep well and didn’t do my normal day routine things without feeling bad until i got the idea for asking help here on the internet.
    Is no doubt that there is something bigger than everything, is a fact that there is someone that take care of us manifesting himself through people like you, no matter your religion.
    Because I felt that I got this answer like a message of him telling me that when we get lost from the correct path, he knows we still have the strenght to get back to the track at time and there is no bigger love than that.
    THANK YOU AGAIN FOR EVERYTHING.
    BLESS YOU.

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